NOW! to the meat and potatoes of our discussion! GUNS!
I am a gun owner. I enjoy guns a lot. A day at the range is one of my favorite ways to spend my weekends. I live in a pro gun town. All of my friends like guns and we all talk about guns.
One discussion that came up was while we were playing the new video game "The Division" this weekend. For those of you who are unaware, it is set in an apocalyptic New York after a devastating Bio-Terrorist attack.
We started talking about Bug-Out Guns. A Bug-Out Gun is a gun that you have for any time there is an emergency and you need to get out of your place of residence and find a way to survive some place else. This requires mobility, and flexibility of the weapon, and you must take into account ammunition you need to carry as well as find while scavenging. While just about any gun can work for you in one way or the other, the idea is to choose a gun that has as few weaknesses as possible.
We started the discussion with guns that we currently own.
I have about twelve guns or so that are currently functional, and they range from pistols to hunting rifles to AR-15s.
ome with iron sites, and only have a 3-9x power scope attached to them. While this would be good for anything over 100yds, I could not conceivably hunt a rabbit with a 30-06 at ten yards. There would be no meat left to eat after I hit it, and target acquisition is really difficult at closer ranges.
I also could not choose a pistol of any sorts. I have a .357 revolver, a 9mm Turkish made pistol, and CZ-82 which shoots a 9mmx18 round invented by the Russians (see generic picture on the right). My wife also owns a .22 revolver. While some of these would be good for short range, there are a few issues I can see with them. My 9mm pistol is good at short ranges and in combat situations only. I would trust my life with it, but I would not trust to hit anything outside of 25 yards. The revolvers hold fewer rounds and is harder to reload, even if I had speed loaders. The CZ-82 ammo is so hard to find that I could not guarantee that I would not run out of ammo.
This leaves two weapons which I would be more than happy to grab in an emergency situation, although neither are currently the perfect tool for the job.
I have an AR-15 in .223/5.56 and a Ruger 10/22 in .22 caliber.
Anyone who knows guns probably all thought the exact same thing... "Ruger 10/22? but the .22 caliber is so small! why would you ever want to use that?!?!?!?"
Well, small minded gun owners, I will tell you. The effectiveness of a shot is very rarely reliant upon the size of the projectile. The primary thing that makes a shot effective is the shot placement. If you can hit just the right spot, you can kill a deer with a .22. You may have to track it for some distance, but it can be done. It will not destroy any meat if you kill a rabbit, and because the 10/22 is Semi-Auto and you can obtain a 25 round BX-25 magazine for it, it makes for a decent self defense gun too. You can send quite a few rounds down range in the direction of your enemies. The .22 round is very common, and most people have at least one box of it. Boxes can most often be found in 330 or 550 round boxes. They do not weigh very much and can be accurate (on a calm day) out to about 200-300 yards.
My AR-15 on the other hand (see another generic picture on the left) , may be better suited to the task... maybe... it shoots a slightly larger round, with a much larger case at a higher velocity. This means that taking down larger game is a bit easier. It will reach out further with a bit more accuracy. The common mag size is 30 rounds and it is a Semi-Auto rifle. I specifically put together my AR-15. I purchased parts separately with a specific goal in mind... To make my rifle as light, but as comfortable as possible.I was hoping it would be a competition rifle, so the items I bought allowed me to customize it to make the cycle time a bit faster. A faster cycle time means I can pull the trigger that much faster as well. In order to get the action to cycle as quickly as possible, I wanted to make sure there was no wasted motion. The bolt cycles back juuuuuuust far enough to eject the spent casing and strip the next round. This is done by lowering the amount of gas that gets used to work the action with an adjustable gas block.
This all sounds well and good until you get into the issues. This only works when I have consistent power out of each round. If the round fires, and has a few grains of gunpowder less than the rifle likes, it will eject the round, but not strip the next one. Why don't I adjust it higher? because it's obviously the apocalypse and I don't have time to run around and find the two different Alan keys to do it, obviously.
As long as we are on the subject of how the rifles currently are set up... the AR may also only contain a red dot site (see final generic image on the right) as an optic right now... and despite that working for my current needs, it would not always work in an emergency situation. I trust my red dot out to about 100-200 yards if I am launching rounds trying to hit SOMETHING, but not if I am trying to accurately hit something and give it a merciful death. also, red dots require batteries, and would be useless if they died. Thankfully ARs have a big long rail on the top for attachments, so what I would probably end up mounting a 3-9 scope, and have canted iron sights. both of which I have, but have not put on this rifle to save weight.I would also be concerned about cleaning the rifle. The AR-15 is a shooters gun, and is meant to be treated with care and respect. While you may be able to go a good long while without cleaning it, eventually it does have to be cleaned or performance will suffer or your gun may stop working.
So there you have it... Out of all the guns I own, none will quite fit the bill, but if I was to choose any of them... I would probably go with the AR-15. it would be better if I took fifteen minutes to make a few changes... but I won't...
Any thoughts?
Stay tuned for the "Guns I Don't Own" edition.
So for the end of a world gun would you chose your AR with a 3-9x scope?
ReplyDeletefor the guns I own, yes. My scope is not currently on my AR, my red dot sight is, but I would rather have my 3-9x scope. I also have a set of canted iron sights that I wold probably throw on it if I had the time. If I had to just grab one gun I owned to save my ass from the end of the world, right now, it would be my AR with my red dot sight. it is just the most flexible rifle I have right now.
ReplyDeleteI'm like most guys and I don't think the world is going to end tomorrow, but I still wonder. What do you think would be the most likely "end of the world" scenario? Do you have more than just your gun selection picked out? Do you have your zombie team picked out? (sorry I'm a walking dead fan)
ReplyDeleteI like to think most situations can be avoided, and if the right people make the right decisions we shouldn't run into any political issues that happen to end the world, like a WW3 sort of thing. I think it will be some sort of natural disaster. a disease, a solar flare, a deterioration in atmosphere, something like that. otherwise, possibly a worldwide economic collapse?
DeleteRight now, I really only have my gun. Prepping is a hard thing for me to get into. There is a lot of stigma around peppers, but I always think it would be a good thing to get into. My grandparents always kept a years worth of food in their house, and having something like that saved up would help if I ended up losing my job, or not being able to work or something, but nothing is specifically picked out.
Since I think that zombies are the least likely scenario, we will call it a "survival squad" and yes, I do have a few people in mind. When clearing buildings, I envision a four man team. A lead up front, the tail in back, and backup in the middle. I always think of myself in the lead position, my friend Derek right behind me, My wife just behind him, and my friend Justin covering the rear.
I couldn't possibly trust anyone else in front of me. You need your next best shooter covering the rear, because he may become the new lead if you need to reverse. Behind me I have the best man from my wedding. he and I are closer than anyone, and cohesion is key. My wife stays out of trouble, and is generally a pretty good shooter, so I trust she can take care of herself if needed. I can't go anywhere without here, so we give her the easier job of being the triple check per room.
I have done a little prepping, but most of my plan involves heading to my brother-in-law's farm. I think my squad would be up to 8 people for a little more strength. Sadly most of my friends don't have much tactical, camping/survival, or shooting skills. I think the only way they could clear a room is with the expenditure of a lot of ammunition. I don't think any of us could take a "first round hit" shot past 100yrds. Unfortunately i think my best shooter is also the mechanic and medic. I guess there is some room to improve. My friends and I do do some training, practicing, and shooting drills together. I would have to say we do "tactically communicate" well when we need to.
ReplyDeleteI like the article. I think I would chose a 6 man squad. Joe do you other survival squad gear? I know a few people that collect guns, but no gear to go with it. I like to collect guns as well. But when the SHTF I only can carry so many. Joe what do you think is the most important bug out item other than a firearm?
ReplyDeleteThat's a tough one. There are so many items a person should bring. First priorities in survival is food, water and shelter. You have guns, so you can hunt. If you can find a body of water, that's taken care of, but you need a way to make it drinkable. You also need a way to cook your food, so fire is pretty high up there. I would say a good fire starter of some sort. It would be small and light, and fire is used for so much stuff it's almost a requirement.
DeleteHere is a stumbling question; if your squad is only on foot, do you have people carry a variety of weapons for different uses or weapons that are similar for compatibility? It's nice to bring the 22lr for small game hunting, but choices have to be made. I think it would be hard to tell someone in a group that they need to carry this extra 22 rifle while I get to carry a kiss vector. Sometimes everyone wants to be squad leader, but no one wants to be the medic.
ReplyDeleteHummm.... I think most people plan to be the squad leader in their fantasy, but in a situation it might be easier to designate certain tasks. Most of the guys in my squad would want to use an AR15 of some sort, if needed can be used for a wide variety of roles. In my group we all prefer different configurations of AR's. I think it would be handy to have a wide verity of arms back at home base, but if the squad is on a mission, the AR would probably be our first choice.
ReplyDeleteJoe your AR sounds cool, but i think it may be a bit too tailored to a specific purpose/ ammo. Tuning a gun for ammo is cool, but may not be a good choice for a Bug-out-gun based on how finicky it could be with other ammo.
There may be some situation where this applies, but in my group, I dont have to worry about this. All four of us have our own rifles that we would bring. It just so happens that we would all bring AR-15s that we built, and my wife would grab my 10/22. She actually prefers the 10/22, so no one fights.
Deletewhether you decide to have different types of weapons or the same basic gun, it is important to choose guns with common ammo like .22, .223/5.56, 9mm, .45, .308, or 30-06. You will notice that whenever there is a gun scare, those are the calibers that seem like they're in short supply, but that is because everyone is buying them. When you are scavenging (hopefully abandoned) houses, these are the rounds that you are going to find the most of. this will be more important than a wide variety of guns because a gun without ammo is pretty close to useless.
Joe, what are your thoughts on multi role rifles vs task specific for SHTF? (i.e. hunting rifle, glock, sniper rifle, and CQB weapon vs something like a SPR/DMR AR15) Would it make a difference the size of your group? and what would you hope your survival squad is equipped with?
ReplyDeleteI think it is a fun topic on what the average person would do. Because not all of us are seal team 6. ( new blog post on the subject? and may be some specifics, the internet is full of generic self help survival stuff. You know the "each to their own" or "what your abilities are in your environment")
That is a great idea. I will look into doing a whole post about it.
DeleteThat would be an interesting topic. So many things to consider on how to arm and build a team of people you know. The first thing I think I would want to know is the size of the team and what their skill sets are. In a SHTF, i hope people are good with the guns they have. My current squad of friends would do well against zombies, but our long range skills need work. I think most of us would bring a AR15 with red dot and a semi auto pistol. Little to no application difference in our gear (could be a pro, but probably a con in SHTF)
ReplyDelete